Posts by Richard Oliver

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

Orphan Crow:

I do accept your concern about Witnesses preaching to convicted child abusers, but even though these individuals have done horrible stuff they are still humans and have to live a life following their release. These individuals are going to be released for the most part at one point or another, if we like it or not. Prison is supposed to rehabilitate people that is why they are called correctional institutions, it is not supposed to punish people beyond getting people to become rehabilitated But you are right, unfortunately, not everyone who serves their full prison sentences are rehabilitated nor is it possible for some people to ever be rehabilitated, but they are still released from prison. It happens all the time, when correction officials inform a community that a dangerous offender is going to be released, and people go out there and protest the release, but time and time again officials say that they have no choice, the person fulfilled their sentence and has to be released. But what is my point here, it is that these people no matter what we think of them personally are still humans and still have rights that must be respected. It is still their choice if they want to become a Witness or not to associate with people that they choose, not where prohibited by law, and to live their life as normally as possible.

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

It is interesting as now there is a full Republican congresspeople and more state capitals are being dominated by Republican legislatures there is going to be a bigger push for tort reform. This would effect these cases on child abuse. A major part of these reforms that Republicans like is limiting the award amount for non- economic damages, which would be loss of enjoyment damages or punitive damages.

32

AUSTRALIA - Petition to Cancel the Charity Status of Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses

by jwleaks in

a petition has been launched in australia to coincide with the child abuse royal commission's adverse findings against watchtower and jehovah's witnesses.

the petition is to the australian charities and not-for-profit commission to cancel their charity status.. https://www.change.org/p/australian-charities-and-not-for-profit-commission-acnc-cancel-the-watchtower-bible-and-tract-society-s-charity-status.

[quote].

Richard Oliver

I am sure it also matters if the people who sign the petition are citizens of the country and not just people from around the world.

13

What is it like at Warwick Bethel?

by nevermind in

from reading about people's first and second hand experiences about working at wt world headquarters back in the 70s and 80s era, the hypocrisy and lovelessness caused many bethelites to quit even before their term ended, some even leaving to never again return to a kingdom hall.

that, coupled with open access back then at bethel to the literature of watchtower's early days can easily open the eyes of any rank and file jw to the society's occultish beginnings.

fast forward to the warwick bethel today.

Richard Oliver

Bethelietes have a long history of living in a similar setting as Warwick that of Patterson's and wallkhill. Granted Patterson is a little better because Danbury is only a 20 mins drive. But everyone hangs out has dinners together watch games and stuff all the time. Bethel is not a prison where you have to be in bed by a certain time.

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

Fisherman that is correct. Catholic confessions are protected. The argument is two fold. First the fact that elders transmit information the branch. Second that there are times that elders initiate the hearing. As described previously, there is case law to indicate in other states that transmitting information does not negate the privilege and other case law shows that even if the clergy initiate the hearing it is still privilege. Though in Louisiana the state supreme court ruled that even if the clergy wants to keep a matter confidential if the communicant wants to release the privilege, the clergy member can no longer argue the privilege.

13

What is it like at Warwick Bethel?

by nevermind in

from reading about people's first and second hand experiences about working at wt world headquarters back in the 70s and 80s era, the hypocrisy and lovelessness caused many bethelites to quit even before their term ended, some even leaving to never again return to a kingdom hall.

that, coupled with open access back then at bethel to the literature of watchtower's early days can easily open the eyes of any rank and file jw to the society's occultish beginnings.

fast forward to the warwick bethel today.

Richard Oliver

Zeb:

In the US Government there is no Presidential Inquiries, there are congressional hearings but not Presidential Inquiries. The President doesn't have legislative powers nor investigatory powers. The Executive Branch has agencies with investigative powers but normally they do not take their directives from the president, but they are to use their investigative powers with independent discretion. The reason for this, is during the early years of the FBI, Presidents and the Directors would use the power of the FBI for political reasons. Normally, if the Federal Government would like to investigate a matter, they will use the committees of the Congress to hold hearings. But just as the ARC is not a court, there is limits to the results that can take effect following those hearings, mostly either new legislation or they can turn the information over to existing law enforcement.

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

Geat Teacher:

I agree one of the reasons why Watchtower may not want to bring a case like that because they don't know how the case would turn out. For the longest time supporters and detractors of limiting some gun rights have had this same thought. The Supreme Court doesn't have a long history deciding those cases, so neither side felt very comfortable wanting to take the case to that level. They knew that once the Supreme Court rules that is about it, that is then case law for a long time, of course there are exceptions. So it could be that neither side really wants to test the waters at that level in case their side loses.

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

Tech 49:

I re-read your original post. You did bring up some interesting points, and you used yourself as an example. I am not sure if you do own your own business or if it was a hypothetical of a hypothetical.

It is certainly true that settlements can make plaintiff's more embolden to start legal proceedings more often if an organization has a history of just settling cases. A not so hypothetical situation happened with criminal cases in California, due to a Federal Courts decision that California had to reduce overcrowding in jails, more criminals were released early, this caused more and more defendants from not accepting plea deals. Many plea deals that were being offered at that time included supervised release, but the defendants knew that they weren't going to serve anywhere near their full sentence even without a plea deal, and when released they wouldn't have any supervised release. This made prosecutor's jobs much harder because they had to take more cases to court and work on making sure that defendants were found guilty in order to get them to serve any kind of jail time.

But you also have to remember that Watchtower has won a number of these cases as well. They just don't get reported on, these forums and sites as much as the settlement cases are reported on. A number of cases have been won by Watchtower showing that they have no fiduciary responsibility, nor do they have a duty to warn or protect. Those are precedents that actually matter in court cases in the future. With nondisclosure settlements or settlements that Watchtower does not admit fault cannot be brought up in future court cases.

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

There are two types of appeals courts. First ones that doesn't have a choice on the cases that they hear, which is what the first appeals court is. Currently, the Padron case is being heard by the California 4th Circuit Court of Appeals 1st District. The second type of Appeals court is the type that is allowed to choose what cases they will hear, which is the Calfornia State Supreme Court. When an Appeals court hears a case and makes a ruling that becomes a precedent for lower courts that they have jurisdiction over, such as for the 4th Circuit in California would include most of San Diego County, but those precedents are not mandatory for courts outside of their jurisdiction. A lawyer can still bring up that precedent even though they are not in the Appeals Court Jurisdiction but it wouldn't be a mandatory precedent but it would be a persuasive precedent. A lawyer would be able to show that another court ruled a certain way, the court that the lawyer is currently before can choose to go along with the precedent or ignore it completely. The only way that Watchtower could get all State courts in California to consider them as clergy when it comes to clergy-penitent privilege would be if the State Supreme Court took the case. And the only way for the US Supreme Court to rule on a case would be if (1) there is a federal constitutional question (2) the State Supreme Court has already ruled on the case. The other way for Watchtower to get the US Supreme Court to rule on it is, for a federal trial court to hear the case, it is appealed to a Federal Appeals Court and then the US Supreme Court can choose to hear the case or not.

182

The Danger of Settlements

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.

conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.

i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).

Richard Oliver

It depends on the state. Some states recognize elders as having confidential communication and some states don't, the latter being the minority. And yes Watchtower did turn over those redacted documents in the Padron case.

Also in the Lopez case, Watchtower has been prepared to turn over the documents as well, but Zalkin and Lopez will not agree to a stipulation for a protective order.